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Fix For Mixer Bleeding or Decay (mostly old PMCs)


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#1 odonov8

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:50 AM

The Innofader and Innofader PNP have a reverse protection circuit which might be the source of bleeding on some mixers. The below mod essentially bypasses this protection circuit.

Before you do this, make sure there is some dead space on the fader. Set the Innofader to the factory default as shown here.

Now if there is still bleeding, then try the below mod. ***NOTE: Before you do this mod, make 100% sure that the green LED lights up when testing the connector. Otherwise you may cause permanent damage to the Innofader.


Mod as follows for Innofader PNP (see below for original Innofader):

First remove the 4 pin cable from the Innofader PNP.


Remove the grey wire from the connector on the 4 pin cable used above. Find another cable included with the Innofader PNP and remove all 4 pins from the small 4 pin connector which is the same size.


Insert the grey wire into the second pin


Plug the grey cable connector into the 5 pin socket on the Innofader PNP. Make sure the leftmost pin on the 5 pin socket is exposed as shown. Plug the original cable with blue, green, and yellow wires back into the original socket.



Mod as follows for original Innofader:

First remove the 8 pin cable from the Innofader.


On the 8 pin cable, remove the grey wire from the connector.


Remove a 5 pin connector from on of the line fader cables. The picture below shows removal of one wire. All 3 should be removed.


Insert the grey wire into the second to last connector position.


Plug both the 8 pin and 5 pin cable into the Innofader.


If this mod doesn't work, note Innofaders on the new production have a much lower resistance for the fader off position.
Older original Innofader production resistance = 4 ohms
Newer original Innofader + Innofader PNP production resistance = 0.45 ohms
This lower resistance is much more effective at eliminating this bleed problem. Please write to us if you want assistance with this.


#2 mrwolff

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 03:07 AM

Elliot,

Good Look'in. Johnny on the spot wit the answers. I will try this on that 05 and let you know.

Thank you,

Wolff

#3 odonov8

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 04:22 AM

QUOTE (mrwolff @ Feb 4 2009, 04:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Elliot,

Good Look'in. Johnny on the spot wit the answers. I will try this on that 05 and let you know.

Thank you,

Wolff


Haha I just updated the mod for better bleed / decay control. Try it now.

Elliot

#4 mrwolff

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 02:22 PM

Elliot,

Does the grey wire from the 8 pin connector that is now plugged into the 2nd position of the 5 pin connector need to be plugged into anything else or go anywhere? Or should the tip of the grey wire just be insulated with tape and left to hang inside of the mixer?

Thanks,

Wolff


#5 odonov8

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 02:04 AM

QUOTE (mrwolff @ Feb 4 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Elliot,

Does the grey wire from the 8 pin connector that is now plugged into the 2nd position of the 5 pin connector need to be plugged into anything else or go anywhere? Or should the tip of the grey wire just be insulated with tape and left to hang inside of the mixer?

Thanks,

Wolff


That grey wire goes to the 4-pin connector at the other end of the cable. It should be connected there as long as you didn't deliberately cut it off!!!


#6 mrwolff

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 03:32 AM

Please punch me in the side of my head. Where else would it go?!?!?!? If I don't know where the other end of the grey wire is by now I think I may be losing it.......Thanks

#7 odonov8

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE (mrwolff @ Feb 5 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Please punch me in the side of my head. Where else would it go?!?!?!? If I don't know where the other end of the grey wire is by now I think I may be losing it.......Thanks


The original Innofader cable is 8 pins on one end and 4 pins on the other end.

The 4 pins on the other end connect to blue, green, yellow, and grey wires in that order.

So for this mod, you need to:

1) Remove the 8 pin connector from the Innofader
2) Pull the grey wire out of the 8 pin connector
3) Remove the 5 pin connector from the line fader cable - NOTE: the line fader cable isn't used here!!!
4) Reinstall the grey wire into the 5 pin connector (2nd to rightmost pin), and finally
5) Plug in the 5 pin cable.

Elliot

#8 mrwolff

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:58 PM

Hey Elliot,

The Innofaders for this 05 I'm working on are finally going to arrive tomorrow. When I receive them lets assume the mod you posted above corrects the bleeding/decay on the crossfader. How should I proceed with the Line fader mod? When I receive the faders I most likely will test the crossfader mod first to make sure that the bleeding is corrected. If that problem is fixed what should I try first in terms of a Line fader mod? Can I do the standard non vca mod with the crossfader's grey wire and the 5 pin power cable being hooked up as you described above? If not, what mod should I try first?

Thanks a mill,

Wolff



#9 jazzroom

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:17 PM

have very soft sounding bleed on PGM-1
channel on Vestax PMC-06Pro VCA with Innofader original.

wonder if this fix is what I need?

#10 jazzroom

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 02:06 AM

QUOTE (jazzroom @ Jun 4 2012, 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
have very soft sounding bleed on PGM-1
channel on Vestax PMC-06Pro VCA with Innofader original.

wonder if this fix is what I need?


i've tried to insulate the innofader with a tape...
it didn't help - there is still soft bleed on the left input when innofader is completely closed.

do i need to do the MOD or not?

thanks in advance for reply

#11 odonov8

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 06:23 AM

QUOTE (jazzroom @ Jun 7 2012, 02:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i've tried to insulate the innofader with a tape...
it didn't help - there is still soft bleed on the left input when innofader is completely closed.

do i need to do the MOD or not?

thanks in advance for reply


Yes you do need to do the above mod. The insulating tape will not help at all with this issue.

Elliot

#12 jazzroom

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 03:05 PM

QUOTE (odonov8 @ Jun 16 2012, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes you do need to do the above mod. The insulating tape will not help at all with this issue.

Elliot

Thank you very much for your reply Elliott smile.gif

i have heard from other users of older Vestax PCM 07/05/06 mixers
that the soft background bleed from the master
outputs is ? regular issue on all those mixers
and apparently a so called Vestax Bug ... ??!

to verify that I have plugged the original Vestax
crossfader instead of the Innofader
and to my amazement the master bleeding
is exactly the same soft volume ! sad.gif

that test tells me that there is something
in the Vestax electronics that gives a channel
bleed by a factory DEFAULT ???

so do you still think that the MOD would change anything?

#13 odonov8

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 03:33 AM

QUOTE (jazzroom @ Jun 16 2012, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank you very much for your reply Elliott smile.gif

i have heard from other users of older Vestax PCM 07/05/06 mixers
that the soft background bleed from the master
outputs is ? regular issue on all those mixers
and apparently a so called Vestax Bug ... ??!

to verify that I have plugged the original Vestax
crossfader instead of the Innofader
and to my amazement the master bleeding
is exactly the same soft volume ! sad.gif

that test tells me that there is something
in the Vestax electronics that gives a channel
bleed by a factory DEFAULT ???

so do you still think that the MOD would change anything?


Actually this mod helps only if the source of bleed is the crossfader. Bleed from the channels directly to the master output cannot be fixed by this method.

I have confirmed several times that older Vestax PMC mixers have overly sensitive crossfader circuits so the above mod is needed to cut the sound when you are using a sharp mixer curve.

Elliot




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